Screen Slate Podcast
Screen Slate Podcast
24 - Showing Up with Kelly Reichardt
Filmmaker Kelly Reichardt joins the pod over Zoom to discuss her new film Showing Up. We talk about how the art school setting bred on-set creativity, shooting in familiar Portland haunts, artist-landlords, turning Outkast's Andre Benjamin into a certified ceramics guru, and the film's discrete shoutout to Light Industry co-founder Ed Halter. And much more!
For more on Showing Up, see our earlier pod with cinematographer Christopher Blauvelt.
Links:
Showing Up trailer and showtimes
The Screen Slate Podcast is supported by its Patreon members. Sign up and get access to bonus episodes, our lockdown-era streaming series archives, discounts from partners like Criterion and Posteritati, event invitations, and more.
You are listening to the Screen Slate Podcast. I'm your host Jon Dieringer and on this episode I am thrilled to speak to one of my favorite filmmakers Kelly Reichardt about what I think is one of her finest films showing up which opens this month in theaters nationwide, including today in New York at Angelica and AMC Lincoln Square. Michelle Williams plays that Lizzie a sculptor preparing for a show at a Portland Art Gallery. While dealing with a lot of very relatable personal and creative issues related to her artists landlord Joe played by Hong Chow and the various characters and family members in and around the art school where she works. We talked about Reichart own experiences teaching at Bard shooting in her own backyard turning outcasts Andre Benjamin into a certified ceramics guru. And in a little bit of fan service for local micro cinema maniacs, we make sure to shout out light industry, of which Reichart is a recent board member. By the way, if you want to hear more about showing up I recorded a great pot. It's one of my favorites that I've done with cinematographer Christopher Blau belt. So take a look in our archives for that one. Before we begin, I want to give a huge shout out to our own community of listeners who support us on Patreon and make all of Screen Slate possible. We don't have ads, we don't have big sponsors. We don't have grants and our Patreon members not only support the pod, but our New York City Film listings that film criticisms that we publish every single day the daily newsletter and more visit patreon.com/screen slate to become a member. And with that said, Here's Kelly Reichardt. Maybe I can start with a question that I feel like will be of unique interest to Screen Slate listeners, which is I thought I caught a moment in showing up where a package arrived for someone named Ned halter. Did I hear that correctly? It was Jed halter. I wasn't allowed to use Ed's name because he's, you know, too well known. Right? Yeah. So you've heard you heard right, but yeah, okay. It was actually Jed haltered. Yeah, okay. Okay. I thought maybe it was Ned. Well, I mean, it was it was my shout out to Ed. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think I had seen you introduced some films recently at light industry. And you had mentioned you share an office together at Bard. But yeah, I mean, this film seems like it reflects in many ways your teaching at Bard, and also the community. They're not just Jed Holter. But you know, who's in the film? And I wondered if you could talk about that. Sure. I'm glad we talked about light industry, because Yeah, cuz I'm on the board. Yeah. Yeah. Your recent board admission. I mean, we could just talk about hype up light industry, right. I know.
Kelly Reichardt:I've done my board work.
Jon Dieringer:Yeah. Relax for the rest of the year.
Kelly Reichardt:That's it. Let's see, You know, we wanted to shoot at the school, the Oregon College of Arts and Crafts, which is really an important institution in the Pacific Northwest has been it's 100 year old school, not not not actual location. It's been there since I think, late 70s, early 80s. But it just shuttered its doors in 2018. And like a lot of art schools in America, huge loss for the community. And so I really wanted to shoot there before it becomes the next thing that it's going to be. And because of COVID, the school was empty, and we were allowed to shoot there. And that was awesome. So we got to make up a whole art school. And so of course, I leaned a bit on my couple of decades at Bard College, and I've always been interested in Black Mountain College, and have made a trip down there. And in the last time I was at the Wexner. Center in Columbus, they had the Black Mountain College show, which was amazing. I don't know if you got a chance to see it with all the but anyhow, stuff has been around now. It's getting really out. She has a beautiful book. And so that whole the history of that school is pretty interesting. And so there's some odes did Black Mountain College in there, too.
Jon Dieringer:Yeah, I mean, it seems like it's reflecting a whole legacy of of many different liberal arts colleges. And you know, not just Bard.
Kelly Reichardt:Yeah, I mean, actually, you know, when we were shooting there, myself and Tony Sparrow, the production designer, you know, we created like, got to figure out as fun like what classes they would be and where they would be. And then Tony in the art team, just started bringing in young artists from Portland to make the art to fill the rooms and we got some looms in the room and the head PA on our crew knew how to do the looms and was teaching everyone how to weave and stuff was being made in every room. And then the young actors that were playing the students came in, they're just kicking around all day because they got to just wait and wait and wait. So they just start getting into the clay and learning how to do that. Die and learn how to sew at the time I get there. They're teaching me how to do it. So it was it became this active place of where stuff was being made in every room. And it was great, you know?
Jon Dieringer:Yeah. I mean, there's such a life to the school and the film. You know, I think that that spirit of creative collectivity really comes across. I had also heard that Andre Benjamin had been walking around playing flute a lot on set.
Kelly Reichardt:Yes. He just played his flute whenever he's not working. And it's a big wooden flute. I forget, he told me what it was called. But I forget it. So yeah, that was kind of a soundscape for a lot of shooting, and is so lovely. The last day at the school, he just stood out in a field the field there and let us record him. And he just played for 45 minutes. And so I had this cache of beautiful flute music when I went into the editing room, which is really awesome to be able to make use of.
Jon Dieringer:Yeah, I mean, it's a really wonderful musical motif throughout the film. And so that was all just recorded like a field recording. And
Kelly Reichardt:yeah, and Ethan Rose is the composer on digital music in the film, which I thought was like a kind of needed contrast to all the really tactile, hippie art that was being made.
Jon Dieringer:Yeah, I think I'd read it originally, you and John Raymond, who you've been collaborating with, for a very long time, were thinking about doing a story about the Canadian artist, Emily Carr, that she was an artist who was also a landlord and had sort of become consumed by the the work of being a landlord. Right. Rather than than focusing on her art. Do you want to talk about that, and how the story took? Yeah,
Kelly Reichardt:we went to Vancouver and both big fans of her painting. And she's, you know, been inspirational in some of the films, just, you know, her paintings, like, you know, when I'm shooting in the forest and stuff. And so, while we were really not Googlers, because we went to Vancouver, and we thought this little known painter in this dormant time that she's working in, you know, then we got to Vancouver, and we learned that she's, she's huge there. I mean, there's, we should have known we were staying at the Emily Carr Hotel. Like something was up because
Jon Dieringer:that is that like property that she owned. That was
Kelly Reichardt:that was like the house she grew up in. I mean, there's everything in my car ever did is a thing.
Jon Dieringer:Do they have like tchotchkes that Emily Carr? keychains and stuff like that. And
Kelly Reichardt:her? Oh, yeah, for sure. But you could go to Oh, my gosh, I mean, like, we went to research, we went to her house, her young her first house and to research it in its, you know, it's like a Emily car museum. And the tour guide was like, Well, you know, the BBC is already doing something. So don't either, you know, I mean, it was just like, even get your elbows in the, it was the it was a crowded field. And so we did get to see some of the school she painted in with those other artists in in a gallery. But you know, there's statues over and things like that. And I think she's taught in every elementary school. I don't think I was ever taught about a painter in elementary school.
Jon Dieringer:Yeah, neither was I mean, maybe like, children's books with paintings in them. But yeah. Great Cat.
Kelly Reichardt:The Canadians have it going on with that. So anyway, we came back home. And in while we were there, we were both sort of having family crisis, each of us and we're both on our phones a lot, not really able to focus anyway, because we both had things going on at home. I guess that's the kind of stuff that ended up the landlord and the distractions of family and, you know, in the connection with the people in your life, and all that sort of stuff started sort of worked its way into the script.
Jon Dieringer:At what point did it go from being a story about an artist landlord to an artist with an artist, landlord,
Kelly Reichardt:I, you know, it was a long road with some, like, kind of failed drafts, and an eye. You know, the getting back and getting closer to our own world kind of made me really nervous. And I was like, oh, boy, making a film about contemporary artists are just so scary to me. And even though I knew like the scale, we were talking about it so while John was tooling away on the script, I wouldn't, you know, wouldn't film Michelle Sue gray in her studio and make two shorts for the Pompidou Well, I shot Michelle Sue gray in the Bronx, and her work is in the film. And she has a studio in the Bronx. And then I went out to Long Beach and filmed Jessica Jackson Hutchins working at Cal State in these huge kilns they had there. And just to figure out just to watch people work and see how they work. I mean, I hang out at friend's studios a good bit, but this was like, how would I even film people working? I just wanted to try it. Yeah. And around this time, like John was sort of cultivating the whole family relation in that relation into the school, which is really great and kind of central and core to the whole thing. I knew we were going to shoot on that street, because that we shot on where the apartments, our friends, built those apartments, and we've had lots of friends living that we've known over the years that have lived in those apartments. I've stayed in them. And so you know, it's a street full of friends and people, you know, basically all artists trying to have a place to live, go to work, do the thing. So we ended up at some point when I was working on the script, I knew I was going to use that space and the up and down of the, the, you know, the carport kind of in the balcony sort of setup.
Jon Dieringer:Yes. Yeah. They're really beautiful homes. Yeah. And also that I think that spatial dynamic works really well with the characters Great.
Kelly Reichardt:Yeah. I mean, they were tiny, tiny spaces to shoot in. But they Yeah, it was a good setup for them. So a lot of the spaces I already spend time in Hong Charles character Joe's studio is my friend storm, Thorpe's studio and in his artwork is in Joe's apartment. And Michael Brophy is our work. The painter Michael Brophy is has the giant painting that's at the school when the on the balcony where the guys vacuuming and Michael Brophy, you know, did the storyboards for me for night news and Meeks and it's done a lot of scouting with me and Neil cop, my producer, and he's used some of my location pictures in his paintings. So it's all a big like jumble of stuff. Chris Johansens paintings are in there and Johanna Jackson and just we got to use a lot of cool art that I you know, I wish I could have hanging on my walls and so at least can happen in my movie. Yeah.
Jon Dieringer:Is this something that you had maybe had in the back of your mind, like a long running desire to incorporate the work of all these friends into a film? Or is it just something that just kind of worked its way
Kelly Reichardt:out and just worked its way Yeah, it wasn't. No, I mean, the process was, you know, we were at it for a few years trying to make you know, figure it all out but it wasn't like something I had been planning to do for my like I said, we were gonna go to I'm always trying to get away from my world my own world when making a film. This time I really shot in my own backyard.
Jon Dieringer:I mean, do you ever feel is it almost like a godfather type thing where it's like it's pulling you back in you know, you're trying to like get away from that milieu, but
Kelly Reichardt:right Well, this time it's like I you know, we shot it like bookstores we love and things like that. And every time you go in there and you're just want to be you know, la la la in my own little brain year, whatever. We've we crashed all the places.
Jon Dieringer:So it's sort of like you get the Kelly Reichardt tour if you watch it. Yeah, right. Yeah. Kelly. Well,
Kelly Reichardt:yeah, but it's a lot. It would be a lot of people's. Yeah, I mean, yeah. John Raymond to and storm Thorpe all these people I mentioned like, it's, yeah,
Jon Dieringer:I mean, that's something that I think is really wonderful about the film even even visually is it looks very lived in like the studios. You know, I didn't want to presume watching it that you had filmed in actual artists studios, but apparently you're saying that is
Kelly Reichardt:place but they all got dressed to be other people's studios. I mean, we brought a lot of Cynthia latte stuff over to even though where we were shooting is the apartment of another studio. We emptied it and brought in all her stuff because everything was dressed in revamped for and everything hand selected for the characters. But the so yeah, we moved everything out of those apartments from the artists that live there move stuff in. Yes. Is to be Yeah,
Jon Dieringer:I mean, it all looks very, very used and like a very real and very loving Yeah, like even just a little, I don't know, jars of
Kelly Reichardt:that. A lot of that. Our decorator AMI, who's in Tony Despero. That's a good team for making things lived in.
Jon Dieringer:Yeah. And you've worked together in a number or films? Is that correct? And like a lot of the crew? I mean, could you talk about this group of people that has been assembled over the years and you know, Christopher Blauvelt, who I had spoken to before?
Kelly Reichardt:Yes. Blog, it's pretty essential in my filmmaking now. I mean, I mean, finding the right DPS really took a long time and was hard. And we've made five features together. And one of those shorts, Chris shot, and yeah, and so and you're, you're kind of just picking up where you left off. And you have a common language by now. And we've like, you know, he's shot so many tests we have, you know, it's kind of all your tests it for what you can remember just on various lenses or whatever. I mean, it's just, it's great. I, yeah, I? Yes. He's great. He's awful. Don't use them.
Jon Dieringer:Yeah, it would be a shame if he would, you know, have other work come up.
Kelly Reichardt:Yeah. Yeah. Well, you get in these relationships that have been ongoing. It's Janet Weiss, great drummer and of quasi and also fabulous location, Scout. Yeah, she did first cow. And, and then, of course, Neil, cop and initial Johnny, the producers I've been working with. And since old joy.
Jon Dieringer:And then of course, Michelle seems to really anchor a number of the film's as well. So
Kelly Reichardt:look, row comes back. A lot of people come back. Yeah, yeah. Michelle, and yes, she does a lot of stuff in between. And I've done some do things in between, and then you meet again, and it's great, because you both have like, picked up some, some more tricks of the trade on the
Jon Dieringer:Yeah, I mean, it's kind of wild that three of the people in this film were nominated for Oscars, I think Michelle's work here, it's a lot. I don't know, maybe it feels like a little more interior? If that's fair to say, Yeah. Could you talk about shaping that performance and collaborating with Michelle?
Kelly Reichardt:I mean, gosh, it's such a, you know, what the film is about, it's a process, everything's a process. And, you know, first, the first sort of, beginnings of it is, you know, the gossip stage with, as we like to call it with John, during out, you know, the salad of, you know, taking things from a bunch of different places, and people and all and forming these two characters. And
Jon Dieringer:so also, when can you elaborate on the calling of the gossip stage, like, you're sort of sharing stories or anecdotes,
Kelly Reichardt:just taking pieces of how people were anxiety approached other people approach the world, I mean, you know, even ourselves, and sort of, it's like a collage that comes together, right. And some people aren't even, you know, might not even be people we know, personally, like, you read something of someone, or from a book or any, you know, sky's the limit. It's not all just like, out of our little neighborhood, then there's that phase. And then I like a lot of images, and I work with a lot of images of, I had, like, all these different women working in clay. And I'm like, how does this all gonna? Now I gotta get into the reality of casting it. One really important person was Lee bhana. Cue the sculptor. And when I had images of her, I really thought, oh, you know, I see, Michelle, this is great. Like, it helps me to have a simple minded person, it helps me to have an image of a person in actual, you know, it was nice to have an image of a sculptor, that I could see some resemblance in, and it was a, it was talking to Michelle, and then you know, Michelle, I'm kind of talking to her about who the character is. But then she and Hong are each spending time with the artists whose work they're using, so they can feel comfortable with the art. And, you know, I say, well, this isn't, you know, the person that you're, but I'm sure it's impossible for them to not absorb things from those people, because they're learning that's really personal art, and they're learning stuff from those women spending time at their studios and that kind of thing. And whatever they're bringing to it in their own stuff, and then you know, boys posture and then it's always a big deal when everyone gets in their costumes and, you know, getting the clothes right and the shoes right and all of that kind of stuff. Gosh, I wish I could remember it. I won't be able to remember what it says so I can't quote from it. But I I just read, you know, a Dave Hickey. I think it's an older Dave Hickey piece about Robert Mitchum. I won't try to say what it's all about. It's kind of like how everything in the scene like the props, and everything's real except for the actor, and, you know, being becoming as real as the pot of coffee or whatever it is. interpretation of it, but
Jon Dieringer:no, I think I understand what you're saying. Yeah. And I mean, I think Michelle fits really well into this milieu that you've created, you know, which is a place that also exists. It's, as you're saying, it's kind of like your backyard, but she feels like she belongs there. When you watch the movie, you know, she kind of disappears or melds into it, you know, which is the case with all the actors, as well, you know, Hong Chow and Jed Hirsch. Yeah. Andre Benjamin. You know, I think it's really remarkable when you take someone like, you know, Andre Benjamin, who's such a, you know, such a superstar, and he works so well is just the killing guy.
Kelly Reichardt:Well, he went out Long Beach, where I'd made that short to learn the kills. And I thought he'd go out there for a day. And then he's just like, texting me at the end of the day, like, oh, man, Clay. I knew it in this and they just kept going back, you know? So.
Jon Dieringer:Yeah, you see, like a ceramics joke. Yeah.
Kelly Reichardt:Super time. We got him. He was pretty comfortable. Handling stuff and with the kilns and he, yeah, he, we wanted this person to be. Yeah, like the kiln guru. And, and he's got that vibe, for sure.
Jon Dieringer:Yeah,
Kelly Reichardt:he doesn't get so yeah, great.
Jon Dieringer:Well, I love I love the way he plays off that scene where you know, where the pieces kind of burned. I think there's an element to the film where everyone's just like a little too chill, maybe. Which feels very real to me. You know, it's not necessarily that Lizzie's. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, Lizzie's maybe a little more high strung, but it's also that everyone else around her feels like a little too easygoing about everything.
Kelly Reichardt:And so people, you know, easygoing is the, you know, the thing. They were on the outside. And, yeah, and that works in a certain way. Because, you know, everyone wants to be the easygoing person. Right, you know, an early thing. John's description, an early description John had of Lizzie when we're starting out with a trapped badger. And I really thought that was like a great way of looking at her. And I understood like exactly what that meant. Yeah, but yeah, it's true. So Andres, like the the Andres character, Eric is the you know, yeah, he's the ultimate. He's truly at ease.
Jon Dieringer:Yeah, he seems very unflappable. Can you talk about working with Jed Hirsch? Because, you know, he's such a iconic actor. And he's so funny in this film. And yet another example of a character who's very loose,
Kelly Reichardt:supposedly, yeah, yeah, maybe a little in denial and distracting himself by he's got a little that character has a little of different people in it a little my dad in there, for sure. Especially with just having whoever come over and stay on your couch. And Jed was. He's a total character in real life. And he seems like he isn't, it seems like you can't get his attention and he's not going to focus. And he doesn't focus until the scene starts. And then he, I really, the scene of him and Michelle in his studio. I've never shot a scene where I've felt emotional, like the scene was being shot. And I felt emotional, why that scene was being shot. And he he just he gets with it and he really he does it. This every take is different. And he can even put the humor in a different place. And and his total ability to be like the I don't know what's going on guy, Dad, I mean, I knew he was doing I thought it was great when we were shooting but like being in the editing room with his takes and just really going through stuff. I was like Wow, man. He really did different things constantly. And all good. Like they were all ones you'd takes you could use and it would make the scene different. It was It was, yeah, it was great. He's a great actor.
Jon Dieringer:Yeah, the gallery Lizzie's opening, watching him sort of engage the other characters. I almost got the sense that maybe on the set he had he had been similarly just kind of like, bullshitting with everyone. Can now Yeah,
Kelly Reichardt:yeah. Over here. We're rolling. Yeah.
Jon Dieringer:Just kind of like holding up the same thing.
Kelly Reichardt:He's just doing the thing. Yeah, he and him and Amanda just as two people together. That's pretty good. You know, Amanda Plummer and Matt Malloy. Their hearts aren't really that huge, but they're so great. And they're bringing you know so much with them. And I that's a really wonderful thing. Yeah,
Jon Dieringer:I know. Obviously, you're, like completely inundated with a release of this film. Now. Is the process in gear for the next. Like, how does?
Kelly Reichardt:Oh, my God, I can't even think about
Jon Dieringer:anything. Okay, okay. That's fair. Yeah. Yeah.
Kelly Reichardt:Just go and see the movie. And that's best.
Jon Dieringer:Yeah. Go see the film. Check out light industry. Yeah, right. Yeah, subscribe to Screen Slate. Yeah, thanks. Whoo. Awesome. Thanks.
Kelly Reichardt:All right. Yeah. I love what you guys do there. So thank you. It's a good thing. Yeah. I'm into it.
Jon Dieringer:This has been the Screen Slate Podcast. Thanks for listening. Thanks to everyone at 824 who helped us set this up. And of course, a huge shout out to everyone who supports us on Patreon. Visit patreon.com/screen slate to become a member JOIN OUR DISCORD and get other perks. And be sure to follow the pod on iTunes, Spotify, Google or wherever you get your pods. And a reminder to that we have one with showing up cinematographer Christopher Blau belt in the archives. So take a peek and check that one out. We have another pod next week with Christopher Bartley, director of the fantastic new film sick of myself, and I'll be moderating a q&a with him Wednesday evening at IFC Center. So keep an eye out for that one. All right. We'll see you soon and thanks again.
